Attachment A - Jan 3 Draft Minutes.pdf

Phoenix City Council 
Public Safety and Justice (PSJ) Subcommittee 
Summary Minutes 
Wednesday, January 3, 2024 
City Council Chambers 
200 W. Jefferson St. 
Phoenix, Ariz. 
Subcommittee Members Present                    Subcommittee Members Absent         
Councilwoman Ann O’Brien, Chair 
        Councilwoman Betty Guardado    
Councilman Kevin Robinson 
Councilman Jim Waring 
 
CALL TO ORDER 
Chairwoman O’Brien called the Public Safety and Justice (PSJ) Subcommittee to order 
at 10:06 a.m. with Councilman Kevin Robinson and Councilman Jim Waring present.  
CALL TO THE PUBLIC 
Jeff Caldwell asked the Subcommittee to not to accept a Department of Justice (DOJ) 
consent decree and asked the City to not hire the law firm Squire Patton Boggs if the 
City is sued. 
 
MINUTES OF MEETINGS 
1. Minutes of the Public Safety and Justice Subcommittee Meeting 
Councilman Waring made a motion to approve the minutes of the Dec. 3, 2023, Public 
Safety and Justice Subcommittee meeting. Councilman Robinson seconded the motion 
which passed unanimously, 3-0. 
INFORMATION AND DISCUSSION (ITEMS 2-5)  
 
2. Fire Code Amendment Change 
 
Chairwoman O’Brien introduced Assistant Fire Chief Tim Kreis and Assistant Fire 
Marshal Eric Williams to present on this item. 
 
Assistant Fire Marshal Eric Williams explained the history and the importance of the 
Phoenix Fire Code. He stated the importance of changing fire codes as needed and 
explained the collaborative efforts invested into these code changes. He highlighted the 
significant changes included battery energy storage standards. He also explained 
changes made for efficiency to streamline the permitting process for customers and 
staff. 
 
Attachment A

Chief Kreis recommended the Public Safety and Justice Subcommittee approve a 
recommendation to the full City Council to adopt the updated fire amendment codes. 
 
Councilman Robinson moved to approve the motion and Councilman Waring seconded 
the motion. The motion passed unanimously, 3-0. 
 
3. Maricopa County DOJ Investigation Overview 
 
Chairwoman O’Brien introduced Deputy Maricopa County Attorneys Joe Branco and 
Tom Liddy. 
 
Mr. Liddy stated the intention of the presentation is not to provide any legal advice to the 
City, but to explain the County’s experience around being investigated by the DOJ. He 
provided a comparison between a consent decree and a court order and defined both. 
He stated a consent decree is similar to a court order, but the organization being 
investigated agrees to the terms up front and without a trial, and a consent decree is not 
appealable.  
 
Mr. Branco explained common features of consent decrees and court orders.  
 
Mr. Liddy provided an example of what different paragraphs in a consent decree might 
include.  
 
Mr. Branco offered more insight into substantive compliance paragraphs and noted they 
typically include data collection and analysis, policy, procedure, training changes, and 
internal oversight. He explained the importance of interpreting the terms correctly to 
avoid ambiguity. 
 
Mr. Branco provided detailed information on what a procedural implementation 
paragraph might include. He stated there may be requirements for monitoring, reporting 
to the court and the public, and compliance in written policy and action.  
 
Mr. Liddy stated Maricopa County has been navigating the same DOJ court order for 13 
years, because once Maricopa County is deemed in compliance, the County must 
maintain this compliance for three consecutive years. He stated there is a possibility 
new concerns could be discovered throughout the process and the presiding Judge will 
likely include these concerns in the consent decree or court orders.  
 
Mr. Branco highlighted the importance of avoiding ambiguity and having well-defined 
procedural paragraphs to set clear benchmarks for success. 
 
Councilman Waring stated his concern regarding entering a consent decree. He asked 
why an organization would enter a consent decree.

Mr. Liddy stated when entering a consent decree the organization has a seat at the 
table writing it. He also noted the City might still have to deal with enormous 
expenditures if there is an eventual court order.   
 
Chairwoman O’Brien asked for more explanation regarding how Maricopa County’s 
court order changed over time. 
 
Mr. Liddy stated there were multiple changes to Maricopa County’s court order, and to 
change a court order, there must be a hearing where the Judge makes a new finding. 
He stated if the court instates a monitor, the monitor could request a hearing based on 
their findings. 
 
Chairwoman O’Brien asked if monitors retroactively changed the scores the Maricopa 
County Sheriff’s office originally received. 
 
Mr. Branco stated if that happened, it was likely due to a previous calculation error.  
 
Chairwoman O’Brien stated jurisdictions are encouraged to enter into an agreement 
with the DOJ without seeing the findings from the investigation. She expressed concern 
the City would not be able to ensure the findings were accurate before entering into an 
agreement. She provided statistics for the amount of documents and data the City 
provided the DOJ. She also stated statistics from cities with consent decrees and noted 
violent crime increased in those cities. 
 
Councilman Robinson expressed concern the City would be unable to read the findings 
before agreeing to the consent decree. He stated City staff should be able to decide the 
path forward based on the findings.  
 
Councilman Waring stated officials from the DOJ should not oversee Phoenix Police, 
and expressed concern regarding what has happened in other cities following entering a 
consent decree. He asked Assistant City Manager Lori Bays to ensure the staff who 
handles this issue are not associated with the DOJ. 
 
Chairwoman O’Brien opened the floor to public comment. 
 
Jeff Caldwell asked the subcommittee to not accept a consent decree from the DOJ and 
expressed concern regarding how this investigation has been impacting public safety in 
the City. 
 
4. CAP Hiring, Recruitment and Metric Update Report 
 
Chairwoman O’Brien introduced Assistant Fire Chief Raymond Ochoa and Community 
Assistance Program (CAP) Administrator D.C. Ernst to present on this item.

Ms. Ernst gave the history of the CAP and listed the program’s objectives. She provided 
hiring statistics since March 2023 and explained the on-boarding and training process 
for staff. Ms. Ernst explained the behavioral health dispatcher role and provided 
statistics for police calls transferred to CAP and highlighted the large increase in calls as 
staff has expanded. She provided comparative statistics regarding Behavioral Health 
Unit and Crisis Response Unit responses and gave case examples for how CAP has 
been able to serve residents. Ms. Ernst provided a map with the four new CAP locations 
around the City and ongoing plans for 2024 including the creation of a Community 
Mental Health Wellness Safety Taskforce. 
 
Chairwoman O’Brien asked how many open positions the program currently has. 
 
Ms. Ernst answered there are 74 caseworker II positions and 27 caseworker III 
positions, with 73 positions currently filled. 
 
5. Homelessness Update 
 
Chairwoman O’Brien introduced Deputy City Manager Gina Montes, Office of Homeless 
Solutions Director Rachel Milne, and Office of Homeless Solutions Deputy Director 
Scott Hall to present on this item.  
 
Ms. Montes provided an overview of the presentation and background on the Office of 
Homeless Solutions. 
 
Ms. Milne stated the information in this presentation was gathered from similar cities 
across the United States including San Diego, Austin, San Antonio, and Portland. She 
provided population and point in time count comparisons between Phoenix and each 
city mentioned and explained other city’s recent efforts in addressing homelessness. 
She noted the insights staff gathered from each city and provided overall conclusions 
from these city comparisons.  
 
Councilman Waring stated he asked for this presentation based on his personal 
experience in seeing how San Diego has changed their approach to people 
experiencing homelessness. He noted the amount of people experiencing 
homelessness sitting on the sidewalks in San Diego has decreased drastically. He 
asked if there is anything San Diego is doing that Phoenix is not. 
 
Ms. Milne stated there are many similarities between San Diego and Phoenix in these 
efforts. She stated the main difference is San Diego has a limited camping ban that 
includes areas around schools and parks. 
 
Mr. Hall stated the San Diego Police Department can now cite people for camping in 
more public locations, but staff still struggles with shelter capacity, and if there is no 
availability at a shelter then the person being cited is not prosecuted.

Chairwoman O’Brien asked if there had been adequate shelter space and the individual 
refused that space, if the individual could then be prosecuted.  
 
Mr. Hall stated he would assume in that instance the individual could be prosecuted. 
 
Councilman Waring asked if a limited camping ban is something the Public Safety and 
Justice Subcommittee could recommend to City Council. 
 
Chairwoman O’Brien stated a more comprehensive camping ban would be appropriate 
and suggested asking staff to draft language. 
 
Councilman Waring expressed concern regarding the behavior of people experiencing 
homelessness in public spaces and provided different examples. He suggested people 
who are cited for camping have a scheduled court date even if they cannot be charged. 
He asked for any strategies San Diego is utilizing to be researched and compiled by 
staff. 
 
Councilman Robinson stated he toured the Safe Outdoor Space recently and asked for 
a brief update on how the project is going.  
 
Ms. Milne stated the Safe Outdoor Space has been operational since Nov. 1, 2023, and 
43 people current occupants. She stated 60 percent of the people who have been 
served have left for other indoor shelter, and one person has been housed. 
 
Councilman Robinson stated the importance of collaborating with all partners to ensure 
the community is helping with the issue of homelessness. 
 
Ms. Montes clarified the City does have an anti-camping ordinance, but the difference 
with San Diego is the specific locations in the camping ban. She stated the importance 
of the ninth circuit court requirements stating there must be an alternative space for an 
individual to go to enforce these camping bans. She stated staff is working hard to 
address encampment hot spots as quickly as possible as long as there are alternative 
spaces for individuals to relocate to. 
 
Councilman Waring stated his concern with the narrative that most people experiencing 
homelessness are helpless. He provided examples of people experiencing 
homelessness being resourceful. He asked for these examples to be included in any 
correspondence with the courts regarding the issue of homelessness. 
 
Chairwoman O’Brien asked for an update on the Community Court Program and how it 
could help with the issue of homelessness. 
 
Assistant City Manager Lori Bays stated Mr. Hall and Public Defender David Ward can 
provide an update on the program.

Mr. Ward stated Community Court will start next week. He stated this program will have 
a major impact on those experiencing homelessness, and he hopes it will assist 
participants in finding employment. 
 
Chairwoman O’Brien asked for an explanation of how this program will work and how it 
will benefit participants. 
 
Mr. Ward stated services will be offered to people who have committed misdemeanor 
offenses. If they decide to participate in community court, they will have access to 
community navigators who will be able to connect them with services and work with 
them. 
 
Mr. Hall explained the intended impact Community Court will have for those 
experiencing homelessness is to reduce recidivism and increase accountability for 
those charged with misdemeanors. 
 
Chairwoman O’Brien thanked staff for the effort that went into creating the Community 
Court program. 
INFORMATION ONLY (ITEMS 6 and 7) 
6. Monthly Police Hiring, Recruitment, and Attrition Report 
 
Information only. No Councilmember requested additional information. 
 
7. Monthly Fire Staffing, Recruitment and Hiring Report 
 
Information only. No Councilmember requested additional information. 
 
CALL TO THE PUBLIC  
None. 
 
FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS 
Councilman Waring asked for another update on park safety. 
 
Councilman Waring asked for an update on speed enforcement and speed limit 
postings and how the Police Department is improving these processes. 
 
ADJOURNMENT 
Chairwoman O’Brien adjourned the meeting at 11:53 a.m. 
 
Respectfully submitted, 
 
Chloe Baldwin 
Management Fellow