Attachment A_PSJ Subcommittee Minutes_May 11 2022.pdf

Phoenix City Council 
Public Safety and Justice (PSJ) Subcommittee 
Summary Minutes 
Wednesday, May 11, 2022 
City Council Chambers 
200 W. Jefferson St. 
Phoenix, Ariz. 
Subcommittee Members Present   
 Subcommittee Members Absent  
Councilwoman Ann O’Brien, Chair 
Councilman Jim Waring 
Councilwoman Yassamin Ansari 
Councilmember Carlos Garcia 
CALL TO ORDER 
Chairwoman O’Brien called the Public Safety and Justice Subcommittee to order at 9:37 
a.m. with Councilman Jim Waring, Councilwoman Yassamin Ansari, and
Councilmember Carlos Garcia present. She recognized National Peace Officer Week
with a moment of silence.
CALL TO THE PUBLIC 
None. 
MINUTES OF MEETINGS 
1. Minutes of the Public Safety and Justice Subcommittee Meeting
Councilman Waring made a motion to approve the minutes of the March 9, 2022 Public
Safety and Justice Subcommittee meeting. Councilwoman Ansari seconded the motion,
which passed unanimously 4-0.
CONSENT ACTION (ITEM 2) 
Item 2 was for consent action. No presentations were planned, but staff was available to 
answer questions. 
2. Approval of Neighborhood Block Watch Oversight Committee’s
Recommendations for the 2022 Grant Program Awards
This item was continued to the June 8, 2022 Public Safety and Justice Subcommittee 
meeting.  
INFORMATION ONLY (ITEMS 3-4) 
3. Police Department Hiring, Recruitment and Attrition Monthly Report
Councilman Waring asked for an update on police officer recruitment efforts.
Attachment A

Police Executive Assistant Chief Michael Kurtenbach explained that Police Academy 
classes were increasing in size as recruitment efforts continued. 
Councilman Waring asked if there had been a net increase in staffing levels. 
Chief Kurtenbach indicated that there had not been a net increase. 
Councilman Waring asked if staffing levels had stabilized. 
Chief Kurtenbach noted that there was a positive trend in staffing levels and that these 
levels had not yet stabilized.  
Councilman Waring thanked staff for their efforts. 
4. Phoenix Police Department Hiring Process 
Information only. No Councilmember requested additional information. 
DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION (ITEM 5)  
5. Reappointment of Phoenix Municipal Court Judges and Chief Presiding Judge 
Chief Presiding Judge Don Taylor explained that the Judicial Selection Advisory Board 
unanimously recommended that the Public Safety and Justice Subcommittee 
recommend the reappointment of two Phoenix Municipal Court Judges and Chief 
Presiding Judge Don Taylor.  
Councilman Waring made a motion to approve the item. Councilwoman Ansari 
seconded the motion, which passed unanimously 4-0. 
INFORMATION AND DISCUSSION (ITEM 6)  
6. Unmanned Aircraft Systems (Drones) 
Assistant City Manager Lori Bays introduced the item and presenters. She described 
previous engagement with the City Council on the use of unmanned aircraft systems. 
Fire Executive Assistant Chief Scott Walker explained the Citywide governance 
structure and Administrative Regulation for unmanned aircraft systems. He discussed 
safety and regulatory considerations guiding drone use in the City.  
Fire Battalion Chief Daniel Cheatham described drone use cases for the Fire 
Department unmanned aircraft system program. He noted privacy and security 
considerations in the Fire Department Unmanned Aircraft Systems Standard Operating 
Procedures.

Councilman Waring discussed rules for the release of body camera footage in the 
Police Department and asked about the rules governing the release of recorded drone 
footage for the Fire Department. 
Chief Cheatham explained processes to review and redact drone footage to ensure 
privacy standards would be met. 
Councilman Waring described a potential drone use scenario and indicated that City 
drones would not impact individual civil liberties.  
Chief Cheatham confirmed this and reiterated the review and redaction processes to 
preserve individual rights to privacy. 
Councilman Waring stated potential benefits of the Fire Department drone program and 
noted that residents should not be concerned about how drone footage would be 
utilized. 
Chief Cheatham explained the purpose of drone use in the Fire Department and 
confirmed that resident privacy rights would be maintained. 
Councilman Waring expressed the importance of preserving individual privacy rights 
and noted the potential benefits of, and privacy protections within, the Fire Department 
drone program.  
Councilwoman O’Brien noted the Fire Department would not be recording drone footage 
in Phase One of program implementation. 
Chief Cheatham confirmed that drone footage would not be recorded in Phase One. He 
indicated that staff would inform councilmembers when the program moved to Phase 
Two. 
Chief Walker added that the Fire Department would also follow Health Insurance 
Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) requirements to ensure patient privacy would 
be protected. 
Police Commander Brian Lee described the unmanned aircraft system program 
structure and authorized uses in the Police Department. He explained drone policy 
considerations related to privacy and transparency.  
Councilman Waring described his experience on a police ride along where a helicopter 
was used to find suspects. He asked if a drone could have been used in the described 
situation.  
Commander Lee noted that similar questions arose throughout the community 
engagement process. He clarified that drones were not intended to replace Police 
helicopters and explained the different uses for each piece of technology.

Councilman Waring indicated the similarities between helicopter and drone usage and 
related privacy concerns. He asked about the differences in redacting helicopter footage 
and drone footage.  
Commander Lee described differences in how helicopters and drones may be used by 
the Police Department and noted that drones were not intended to replace helicopter 
use. He explained how livestreamed footage was utilized by helicopter operators and 
rules governing the retention and redaction of recorded footage. 
Councilman Waring asked if Police helicopters recorded footage. 
Commander Lee indicated that the helicopters were capable of recording footage and 
discussed a scenario where footage may be recorded. 
Councilman Waring noted that body cameras were also used to record police 
interactions and how aerial footage may be beneficial. He stated his understanding of 
drone use limitations and asked for clarification on environments where drones may be 
utilized. 
Commander Lee described environmental condition considerations and response times 
for helicopter and drone deployment. 
Councilman Waring indicated that additional clarification would be needed as the 
program progressed. He expressed the importance of ensuring the safety of public 
safety staff. He asked if a drone could be utilized to pursue a suspect in an alleyway. 
Commander Lee confirmed that unmanned aerial systems could be used in the 
described scenario and explained that environmental conditions would be evaluated for 
each drone use case. He emphasized the potential of drone use to enhance officer and 
public safety. 
Councilman Waring discussed the benefits of using a drone instead of a helicopter for a 
pursuit in an alleyway. 
Commander Lee reaffirmed the described benefits and indicated that staff would seek 
to identify and communicate best practices for drone use with the community. 
Councilman Waring suggested that drone policies and implementation efforts in other 
communities could be used to inform the City’s approach to unmanned aerial systems. 
He expressed interest in more information about drone use scenarios and successes in 
other communities. 
Councilwoman Ansari asked for more information on the prior notice that may be given 
to the public regarding unmanned aerial system use and cases in which prior notice 
may not be possible. She asked if the date and location of drone deployments could be 
posted online after each deployment.

Commander Lee explained the intent to provide information to the public prior to drone 
deployments when possible and noted tactical scenarios where prior notice would not 
be possible. He indicated that flight mission logs would be maintained for every 
deployment and would be subject to public records requests. He described a scenario 
where prior notice of drone use could be made to the public. 
Councilwoman Ansari asked how residents would be able to file unmanned aerial 
system related complaints. She expressed her concern about the time to complete 
public records requests and asked if there was a way to communicate drone 
deployment information to the public more quickly. 
Commander Lee explained the processes available within the City Manager’s Office 
and the Police Department to file complaints about unmanned aerial system usage, 
noting that on-scene staff could provide information more quickly. 
Ms. Bays indicated that updates on the drone program and drone deployments would 
be provided to councilmembers and on the City website.  
Councilwoman Ansari asked if councilmembers could be notified when drones were 
utilized in critical incidents. 
Ms. Bays indicated that staff could do so. 
Councilmember Garcia expressed his appreciation that facial recognition technologies 
would not be used. He voiced concerns about police use of drones, vague language in 
the unmanned aerial system policies, and potential privacy and civil liberty violations, 
particularly related to drone usage at protests and large events. He indicated the need 
to continue to improve and refine drone policies and requested regular reports on drone 
programs. Councilmember Garcia added that additional discussions were needed 
regarding the City’s relationships with charging agencies and how recorded footage 
may be used in legal processes. He noted his support for the Fire and Parks and 
Recreation Department drone programs. He reiterated his concerns about potential civil 
liberty violations under the Police drone program and his request for a quarterly drone 
report for the subcommittee. 
Councilman Waring asked for clarification on potential drone usage at protests. 
Commander Lee indicated that drone use cases would be authorized on a case-by-case 
basis and described factors that may be used to determine if drone deployment would 
be beneficial to improve public safety.   
Councilman Waring noted that additional clarification was needed on environmental 
factors limiting drone deployment to ensure consistency across various use cases. He 
stated his understanding that helicopters were already utilized at protests and large 
events.

Commander Lee explained that, prior to the approval of the unmanned aerial systems 
program, helicopters were the only available tool to gather aerial information on 
potential safety concerns at large events. He indicated that drones would provide 
another option for gathering this information and allow helicopters to assist in 
responding to more violent crimes. 
Councilman Waring suggested that Police drone use be consistent with helicopter use 
and that drones may be used in lieu of helicopters to reduce expenses. He further 
described the suspect search process during a previous police ride along and 
highlighted related privacy concerns. He noted the potential to use drones to improve 
public safety and emphasized the importance of consistent drone use and policies. 
Councilman Waring asked if Police staff may request camera footage from private 
companies when investigating a crime. 
Commander Lee indicated that Police staff may request camera footage from third party 
sources when it is available to assist in investigations and that footage may be redacted 
before the Police Department received it. He added that third party footage sources 
were only available to law enforcement after an incident and not as a livestream to 
assist in real-time response efforts. 
Councilman Waring described the proliferation of cameras in public recording footage 
that could be used in a law enforcement investigation, highlighting doorbell cameras 
used by residents as an example. He noted that many other communities and large 
cities already used drones and that the City needed to determine how to use drone 
technology fairly, effectively, and efficiently.  
Parks and Recreation Deputy Director Jarod Rogers described proposed drone uses 
and next steps for program development in the Parks and Recreation Department. 
Ms. Bays explained community engagement efforts, feedback received, and 
subsequent changes being incorporated to each proposed drone policy.  
Councilman Waring expressed his support for the presented policy changes and his 
concerns regarding a Citywide policy for camera usage given the unique circumstances 
facing the Police Department. He emphasized the need to further align and clarify 
helicopter and drone use cases and requested subcommittee updates on future policy 
changes. He noted the abundance of camera technology in public spaces and 
recognized public and councilmember concerns related to Police drone use. 
Ms. Bays indicated that Citywide Administrative Regulations generally provided 
overarching guidance applicable to all City staff and that department policies offered 
additional details to meet unique operational needs. She clarified the purpose of the 
potential Citywide camera use policy. She explained that staff could provide updates on 
drone usage and that feedback received throughout program implementation would be 
used to inform future policy changes. Ms. Bays noted that clearer guidelines

distinguishing helicopter and drone use cases may be established after additional 
information was available throughout program implementation.  
Councilman Waring discussed the proliferation of video recordings by the City, private 
citizens, and outside organizations. He indicated the need for further discussions on use 
cases and policy adjustments to ensure consistency. 
Ms. Bays described the status of department policies, drone purchases, training, and 
next steps for program implementation.  
Councilwoman Ansari asked why public representation was added to the Executive 
Committee and not the Technical, Safety and Privacy Subcommittee. 
Ms. Bays noted that staff had determined that adding members of the public to the 
Executive Committee would allow for broader community representation, as the 
Technical, Security and Privacy Subcommittee required highly specific technical 
expertise. She added that the Executive Committee would provide the final approval for 
policy changes after Technical, Safety and Privacy Subcommittee review.  
Councilwoman Ansari thanked staff for their efforts and expressed the need for less 
vague language in the drone policies. She voiced her support for policy changes 
resulting from public engagement and for updates to councilmembers when drone 
deployments occur. 
Councilman Waring expressed his appreciation for staff efforts and the complexity of 
changing technologies. He indicated a need for more clear drone deployment guidelines 
to improve the safety of members of the public and police officers. 
Chairwoman O’Brien opened to floor to public comment. 
Frank Steinmetz expressed his support for the City’s proposed drone usage and 
policies.  
Stan Bates voiced his support for the City’s proposed drone usage and policies and for 
additional technologies planned for use in the 27th Avenue Community Safety Action 
Plan. 
Councilman Waring noted the potential to utilize drones to prevent the injuries and 
deaths of working Police K9s. He described a situation where a deployed K9 had been 
killed in the line of duty. He asked if the K9s wore cameras and if drones could be 
deployed in place of K9s. 
Commander Lee explained that K9s did not have attached cameras and that K9 unit 
handlers utilized body-worn cameras.  
Councilman Waring indicated his interest in exploring if drones could be used to 
improve the safety of K9 units.

Chairwoman O’Brien thanked participating community members and staff for their 
efforts. She described the results of community engagement conducted on the 
unmanned aerial systems and associated policy changes. She recognized the use of 
drones across the country and councilmember concerns about ambiguous use case 
guidelines. Councilwoman O’Brien expressed her confidence in staff to appropriately 
utilize drones to meet community needs. She voiced her support for updates to 
councilmembers when drones are deployed and regular subcommittee and general 
information packet updates about program implementation. 
 
CALL TO THE PUBLIC  
None. 
 
FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS 
Councilmember Garcia requested an update on the recommendations presented by the 
Review and Implementation Ad Hoc Committee. 
 
ADJOURNMENT 
Chairwoman O’Brien adjourned the meeting at 11:08 a.m. 
 
Respectfully submitted, 
 
Sara Del Valle 
Management Intern