Historic Preservation Commission Meeting Minutes

Meeting Minutes 
Historic Preservation Commission 
Regular Meeting 
 
February 5, 2025 | 5:30 p.m. 
Chandler City Council Chambers 
88 E. Chicago St., Chandler, AZ 
 
 
Call to Order 
The meeting was called to order by Chair Weight at 5:30 p.m. 
 
Roll Call 
Commission Attendance  
 
 
Staff Attendance 
Chair Kevin Weight  
 
 
 
David de la Torre, Planning Manager 
Vice Chair Cheryl Bell 
 
 
 
Lauren Schumann, Principal Planner 
Commissioner Erika Finbraaten  
 
Darsy Smith, City Planner 
Commissioner Bryan Saba 
 
 
Mika Liburd, Planner  
Commissioner Devan Wastchak  
 
Thomas Allen, Assistant City Attorney  
 
Commissioner Mark Yost  
 
 
Julie San Miguel, Clerk 
Commissioner Kyle Barichello 
Ex Officio Member Crago  
 
 
 
 
 
  
 
Pledge of Allegiance 
The Pledge of Allegiance was led by Vice Chair Bell. 
 
Scheduled and Unscheduled Public Appearances 
Members of the audience may address any item not on the agenda. State Statute prohibits the 
Board or Commission from discussing an item that is not on the agenda, but the Board or 
Commission does listen to your concerns and has staff follow up on questions you raise. 
 
Action Agenda Item No. 1 and Discussion 
1.  
Election of Officers 
Move Historic Preservation Commission elect a Chair and Vice Chair of the Historic Preservation 
Commission.

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COMMISSIONER SABA nominated Kevin Weight to serve as Chair. COMMISSIONER WATSCHAK 
seconded the nomination.    
 
COMMISSIONER SABA nominated Cheryl Bell to serve as Vice Chair. COMMISSIONER FINBRAATEN 
seconded the motion. 
 
CHAIR WEIGHT confirmed there were no further nominations and that no one else we interested 
in serving as Chair or Vice Chair. 
 
Action Agenda Item No. 1 Motion and Vote 
 
COMMISSIONER SABA moved for Kevin Weight to serve as Chair; Seconded by COMMISSIONER 
YOST. 
 
COMMISSIONER SABA moved for Cheryl Bell to serve as Vice Chair; Seconded by 
COMMISSIONER FINBRAATEN. 
 
Motion carried unanimously (7-0). 
 
Action Agenda Item No. 2 and Discussion 
2. Meeting Minutes of September 24, 2024, Historic Preservation Commission  
Move Historic Preservation Commission approve Historic Preservation Commission Meeting 
Minutes of September 24, 2024. 
 
CHAIR WEIGHT thanked those that were able to attend the meeting as it was at a special time.  
 
Action Agenda Item No. 2 Motion and Vote 
 
COMMISSIONER  a moved to approve the minutes of the September 24, 2024 Historic Preservation 
Commission, seconded by CHAIR WEIGHT. 
  
Motion carried unanimously (7-0) 
 
Action Agenda Item No. 3 and Discussion 
3. Architectural Plan Review, PLH24-0044 Black Sheep Wine Bar- Patio Extension, 98 S San 
Marcos Place, generally located ¼ mile south of the southwest corner of Chandler 
Boulevard and Arizona Avenue.

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Move Historic Preservation Commission approve Architectural Review Plan, PLH24-0044 Black Sheep 
Wine Bar- Patio Extension, allowing the addition of a patio in the public Right-of-Way on Boston St, 
subject to the conditions recommended by Planning Staff. 
 
DARSY SMITH, CITY PLANNER presented PLH24-0044, Black Sheep Wine Bar. MS. SMITH provided 
information on the location and current zoning for Black Sheep Wine Bar, noting the building is 
located in the Chandler Commercial Historic District.  
 
MS. SMITH reviewed the request for the extension of the patio in the public right-of-way, with 
applicants proposing a 1,600-square-foot outdoor patio with a six-foot clearance from the face of 
curb for pedestrian circulation along Boston Street. MS. SMITH reviewed the rendering of the 
proposal of the extension, including a mural, pergola and three-foot-tall railing as well as metal 
planters and wood barrels topped with lanterns.  
 
Staff finds that this proposal complements the early 20th-century commercial style of 
architecture and surrounding buildings in the CCD, and staff recommends approval of the 
addition with stipulations. 
 
CHAIR WEIGHT asked MS. SMITH to repeat the stipulations. 
 
MS. SMITH stated that Development shall be in substantial conformance with Exhibit A kept on 
file in the City of Chandler Planning Division in file number PLH 24-0044, Black Sheep Wine Bar 
Patio Extension. 
 
Additionally, Architectural Plan Review approval does not constitute final architectural plan 
approval. Compliance with the details required by all applicable codes and conditions of the City 
of Chandler and this preliminary development plan shall apply. 
 
CHAIR WEIGHT inquired if commissioners had questions for staff. 
 
COMMISSIONER FINBRAATEN asked about how the patio is not permanently fixed and what was 
to stop something like a car hitting it and causing damage and physical harm.  
 
MS. SMITH stated that it would be bolted to the ground, but could not be attached to the 
building directly.  
 
COMMISSIONER SABA inquired about the transition, noting that there is existing iron worker 
that is enclosing some of the patios in the area. He asked if that was going to be removed or 
what would replace that.  
 
MS. SMITH stated she believed that it will be replaced or removed and that the applicant was 
present to provide further information.

Page 4 of 11 
 
 
COMMISSIONER SABA also inquired about the tree that was on the patio currently, asking if the 
tree and its planter were going to be removed.  
 
MS. SMITH clarified if COMMISSIONER SABA meant the tree in front of the merchant building. 
COMMISSIONER SABA pointed out the three trees in the area and that one was not in the 
rendering of the proposal. 
 
MS. SMITH reported that tree would be removed.   
 
COMMISSIONER SABA stated he had another question directly for the applicant and would wait 
for them to speak.  
 
CHAIR WEIGHT stated that outdoor dining is seemingly common in the downtown district and 
asked if staff was in agreement with that statement. CHAIR WEIGHT noted that there was still six 
feet of pedestrian clearance and if that was the typical norm for these projects.  
 
MS. SMITH stated that was typical and that a six-foot requirement is required and that the patio 
frontage is seen throughout the colonnade.  
 
CHAIR WEIGHT invited BRIANNA PARISIAN, APPLICANT, to the podium. 
 
COMMISSIONER SABA asked BRIANNA PARISIAN about the back patio area being used as 
storage and what the plan was for that stuff once the area is turned into a functional patio. 
COMMISSIONER SABA also complimented the applicant on engaging the sidewalk.  
 
MS. PARISIAN stated that she worked closely with MS. SMITH on the design to ensure it brought 
value and blended with the Downtown area. MS. PARISIAN stated that everything stored outside 
would be brought inside and that it will be a presentable area.  
 
COMMISSIONER SABA asked about the transition at the corner of Boston and San Marcos, 
specifically with the colonnade being high and that the patio is going to “come in lower” and how 
that was going to transition and look.  
 
MS. PARISIAN stated that the end of the wall for the Black Sheep is where the current partition 
meets and stops the patio. She noted it will be opened up a bit so guests have the ability to walk 
around and walk to the new part.  She noted it will come out past the colonnade but that they 
are still within and that they had worked with the city on this specifically to ensure they were 
correct with their measurements.  
 
COMMISSIONER WASTHCAK stated they liked the addition and had some follow up in regard to 
the trees, noting that that they appeared in “worse for wear” shape.

Page 5 of 11 
 
 
MS. PARISIAN stated that the trees were a liability at this time, as she has had to assist guests off 
of the trees at night, so from a safety perspective as well as having people continually litter in the 
tree planters, it was better to have them removed.  
 
COMMISSIONER WASTCHAK stated that since the trees are being enclosed in the patio area, they 
would be considered private now.  
 
MS. PARISIAN stated that there are three trees in total and two would be enclosed. Only one tree 
is outside the design area.  
 
COMMISSIOERN WASTCHAK asked for clarification on which trees would be remaining.  
 
MS. PARISIAN stated that the idea was to take all three trees out of the area as they continuing 
have a hard time keeping them free of trash and they have had issues with finding needles in 
the planters as well, due to people experiencing homelessness in the area.  
 
COMMISSIONER WASTCHAK encouraged MS. PARISIAN to keep the trees that were inside the 
patio area, stating it was an amenity and softened things up, instead of just being concrete and 
no landscaping. COMMISSIONER WASTCHAK encouraged commissioner to consider this, but 
stated he would go with what the commission wanted. Additionally, COMMISSIONER WASTCHAK  
asked about the materials used for the pergola, specifically the wood material being used. 
 
MS. PARISIAN stated that from the designer, her understanding was that it would be wood and 
the paint would be touch ups or cosmetic to make sure there was not rust or scratches.  
 
COMMISSIONER WASTCHAK asked staff to have a clear callout of the material.  
 
MS. PARISIAN stated that the actual divider will be metal but that PT-1 will be made of wood. 
 
COMMISSIONER WASTCHAK wanted clarification on if the wood used would be faux wood or 
real wood as once it was out there it is going to weather and may not look good over time.  
 
MS. PARISIAN stated she would follow up on that.  
 
COMMISSIONER WASTCHAK stated he would like that to be included in the commission’s 
approval. 
 
COMMISSIONER BARICHELLO inquired about the trees, stating that in reviewing the location of 
the trees did not appear to be on the applicant’s property.

Page 6 of 11 
 
MS. PARISIAN stated that they did in fact own that area. She reiterated the issue with the litters 
and that the tree roots have also impacted the plumbing underground and that the business 
currently has a plumber come out every six to eight months to scoop out the roots.  MS. 
PARISIAN stated that they did work hard on making the design pleasant and fit in with the area 
and that she would relay the commission’s feedback about the trees to the owner, but at this 
time their position was that the trees cause too large an issue.  
 
CHAIR WEIGHT asked staff if there was anything in the city’s ordinance about requiring 
preservation of trees beyond just the opinion of the commission.  
 
DAVID DE LA TORRE, PLANNING MANAGER stated that staff was in agreement that it was a 
beautiful tree to get rid of and that they were looking in the code to see if there is anything that 
would require the tree to stay, but that upon review, there is nothing that requires the tree to 
stay in place. Per code, the applicants can remove the tree, but that commission can ask for it to 
stay if they so choose.  
 
COMMISSIONER FINBRAATEN asked about the tree being in the right-of-way and that if it is, 
could it belong to the city?  
 
MR. DE LA TORRE stated that the patio is private property and the right-of-way ends at the 
building, so the tree would be on private property in this instance.  
 
COMMISSIONER FINBRAATEN also wanted additional information on the area that is private 
property that does not appear to have much shade. COMMISSIONER FINBRAATEN felt that the 
lack of shade, even on a cooler day or evening can still be difficult for people and it could end up 
causing the space to be underutilized.  COMMISSIONER FINBRAATEN asked if the tree shades 
any part of that or if expanding the pergola is an option so that more shade is available.  
 
MS. PARISIAN understood the concern with shade and stated that it was discussed with the 
ownership team, and it was a risk they were willing to take with their current design plan, as the 
pergola could not attach to the building so the design needed to remain shorter.  It was noted 
that there will be umbrellas or something else down the line to be a solution to that problem.  
 
CHAIR WEIGHT inquired if anyone from the public wished to speak. Seeing no participants 
wishing to speak, CHAIR WEIGHT closed discussion on the item and asked for any last comments 
or motions at this time.  
 
COMMISSIONER WASTCHAK stated that he hated to see the tree removed when Phoenix 
specifically asked for trees to be put in. He stated he would like all three trees to remain in place, 
if possible, suggesting the possibility of entirely new trees to assist with the root issue 
mentioned.

Page 7 of 11 
 
COMMISSIONER SABA stated that upon further review of everything, the trees appeared 
“sloppy,” and that though they would be nice, they seemed “messy.”  He reported that his 
concern with the trees staying was that they historically have not looked good.  
 
COMMISSIONER WASTCHAK stated the trees are Ficus trees and that they can be maintained 
with water and would not be a mess if they were not dead.  
 
COMMISSIONER BARICHELLO agreed that with the planters as they were currently, they did 
appear sloppy, but with a healthy newly planted tree, it would be positive and activate the area.  
 
COMMISSIONER FINBRAATEN stated that she had issue with the lack of shade and that a healthy 
tree would be a nice addition to the area. Additionally, COMMISSIONER FINBRAATEN had 
concerns with the patio not being utilized due to the lack of shade for the majority of the year.  
 
COMMISSIONER YOST asked about misters being installed as a way to assist with heat. 
Additionally, COMMISSIONER YOST asked about something like grape leaves or some sort of 
climbing rose as an option to activate the area.  
 
COMMISSIONER BARICHELLO asked if COMMISSIONER WASTCHAK was comfortable with one 
tree being removed if they were to expand the patio space and keep the remaining two trees. 
COMMISSIONER BARICHELLO stated he would be okay with removing one tree in their space 
and then taking better care of the remaining two trees.  
 
COMMISSION WASTCHAK stated he would be fine with that.  
 
CHAIR WEIGHT asked THOMAS ALLEN, ASSISTANT CITY ATTORNEY about crafting a stipulation 
involving keeping the trees and the commission’s “enforceability” to do such a thing.  
 
MR. ALLEN reviewed the language directly from the code, stating that if the Commission were 
going to make a recommendation as part of the approval, it does need to be tied to a 
justification of why this is in keeping with early 20th century commercial style architecture.  
 
COMMISSIONER FINBRAATEN inquired if they had a 1950s aerial photograph that would give an 
idea of the landscaping in the downtown area would that be something that shows what was 
historically appropriate.  
 
MR. ALLEN deferred to JODY CRAGO, EX OFFICIO MEMBER.  
 
MR. CRAGO reported he was trying to pull up his aerial photos for that time period and area. He 
recalled that he did not remember any trees there but was still going to try to find photos to 
reference.

Page 8 of 11 
 
MR. ALLEN stated that in a meeting he attended earlier in the day, he did see photographs of the 
San Marcos area that had some mature trees, but that he did not recall trees along the façade. 
 
COMMISSIONER WASTCHAK commented on landscaping being incorporated into projects that 
were approved in the past.  COMMISSIONER WASTCHAK agreed that looking to see if the trees 
were or were not there in the past was valid but that generally speaking the trees exist here 
now. He stated that as a commission, they could chime in and say that the overall design was 
here and that those trees were already existing and that they feel the trees and providing shade 
in that area would be less harsh.   
 
MR. DE LA TORRE reported that the applicants or the owner have future plans in the area where 
the trees were located outside of the enclosed patio area, that may or may not include the trees.  
MR. DE LA TORRE was unaware of the full scope of the plans and stated that if the Commission 
wanted to open the floor back to the applicant they may get more information.  
 
CHAIR WEIGHT was open to calling the applicant, BRIANNA PARISIAN back to the floor. 
 
MS. PARISIAN stated that the owner is ready to move quickly and that he is in the final decision -
making phase with design plans. She had worry with keeping the trees for activation but stated 
they would work to contribute to the downtown area and make it fun.  
 
COMMISSIONER SABA asked about the plans that are ready now, asking if it was for what the 
commission was looking at now or for something in the future for the next area.  
 
MS. PARISIAN clarified it was for a completely differently concept, a new restaurant in the area in 
the existing building nearby.  
 
COMMISSIONER FINBRAATEN asked that if there is plans for something in that area already, why 
not leave the trees in place for now. 
 
MS. PARISIAN stated that to COMMISSIONER SABA’S point, they are messy trees and that the 
constant trash found in them, including dangerous items and that people will walk down the 
street and try to hang off the trees, which is a liability for them as it is private property.  
Regarding shade, MS. PARISIAN did agree that shade was important and that misters were a 
possibility and that they would look at solutions.  
 
COMMISSIONER FINBRAATEN asked if it was possible to put in a tree in the back area or add 
some greenery or softness to the area.  
 
MS. PARISIAN stated that the owner was committed to design and that was something she could 
bring up to him, but that if she had to speak for him now, he was committed to the current 
design.  With bringing a tree into the patio area, MS. PARISIAN had concerns for birds in the

Page 9 of 11 
 
area, being in the tree and shaking leaves down onto tables or food or there could be an 
increase in bugs in the area.  MS. PARISIAN stated that with the planter boxes, nobody is 
currently keeping the trees alive as pointed out by the commissioners. She reported that though 
on their property, they did not choose to plant them and that they do water them often.  
 
COMMISSIONER YOST asked about the trees, stating he was not familiar with the trees. 
 
COMMISSIONER WASTCHAK stated he was pretty sure they were Ficus trees and that they were 
susceptible to low water and that maybe something more water resistant, like an olive tree, 
would be appropriate.  
 
COMMISSIONER YOST asked about the comment about the birds, asking about the pergola and 
if it was an open-air pergola. 
 
MS. PARISIAN stated that she has noticed significantly fewer birds landing on pergolas and that 
birds tend to migrate toward trees.  
 
COMMISSIONER YOST inquired if any bird spikes would be approved. 
 
MS. PARISIAN stated that the spikes she has on her own home are about an inch and they are 
hardly visible, but that should something be required to be submitted for approval with the city, 
then she would do so.  
 
COMMISSIONER BELL asked if the curtains shown would be decorative or if they could be closed 
and provide shade. 
 
MS. PARISIAN stated that in theory the curtains were to be decorative but that they can move if 
needed, but they are meant to be decorative. 
 
MR CRAGO informed everyone that he had about five good photographs in Chandlerpedia and 
discussed them with the commissioners.  
 
The first photo was from 1924, depicting no building on the second half of the lot. The next 
photo was a little later, shot from the southwest, but the lot remains open. The third photo 
showed the backside of the hotel, with the lot open. He noted that there were no trees in any of 
those photos.  
 
The next photos presented were from the 1950s and there is no view of trees. In the 1960s, 
there was a photo of a commercial building with a slight overhang.  
 
CHAIR WEIGHT asked for confirmation that there were no trees in that location or if there were 
other trees in the vicinity.

Page 10 of 11 
 
 
MR. CRAGO stated that there was an interesting history to the trees, stating that when the park 
was designed originally there was a small island in the center called “The Beauty Spot” and there 
was a tree planted there and that the park overall was covered in trees. There was also 
reportedly trees around the San Marcos and along the canal. He noted that once Highway 87 
came through, the trees were cut down. MR. CRAGO concluded that in the specifical southwest 
corner of the commercial district there appeared to be zero trees. 
 
CHAIR WEIGHT thanked MR. CRAGO for that information and asked about discussion or a 
motion.  
 
COMMISSIONER BARICHELLO commented that in hearing everything discussed and thinking of 
historic preservation, he does not necessarily think of trees. He recalled that there are no “street 
trees” along Boston street and that having heard their expansion plans, stipulating that the trees 
be kept in place may prevent the applicant’s ability to do something creative or designing the 
space they way they want. 
 
COMMISSIONER WATSCHAK viewed that the trees provide an amenity and felt that it would 
provide shade. COMMISSIONER WASTCHAK stated that maybe umbrellas would be easier.  
 
CHAIR WEIGHT commented that it may be something that the commission strongly wishes to 
encourage – the preservation of mature trees, adding new trees, having living and vibrant trees 
and shade is an important amenity.  He noted that hearing from MR. ALLEN and MR. CRAGO, 
they may not be able to enforce this but can strongly encourage moving forward.  
 
COMMISSIONER WASTCHAK asked about needing to add a stipulation to include more 
clarification on the pergola and the materials.  
 
MR. DE LA TORRE stated that the applicant has stated to staff that those are going to be 
pressure treated wood so that it should withstand weather. It was noted it would also be okay as 
faux wood as long as it looks like real wood.  
 
CHAIR WEIGHT appreciated the clarification.   
 
 
Action Agenda Item No. 3 Motion and Vote 
 
COMMISSIONER WASTCHAK motioned to approve PLH24-0044 Black Sheep Wine Bar Patio 
Extension for approval with the two stipulations noted by staff.  
CHAIR WEIGHT seconded the motion.

The motion carried unanimously (7-0). 
Briefing 
Staff briefing on historic preservation activities. 
MIKAYELA LIBURD, ASSOCIATE PLANNER presented an update on the status of the Certified 
Local Government Application. MS LIBURD reported that there was no update at this time but 
that she did believe they were on their way to having their application approved. She reported 
that any update to the commission would be provided as information is available. 
CHAIR WEIGHT thanked MS. LIBURD for the update. 
Member Comments/Announcements 
CHAIR WEIGHT announced confirmation of the annual statewide Historic Preservation Conference 
being held in Phoenix May 14-May17, with the location pending. CHAIR WEIGHT encouraged 
everyone interested to attend. 
Calendar 
The next Regular Meeting of the Historic Preservation Commission will be scheduled as needed. 
Adjourn 
The meeting was adjourned at 6:07 p.m. 
Kevin Weight, Chairman 
David de la Torre, Staff Liaison for Historic 
Preservation Commission 
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