Attachment A 2-7-24-PSJ Subcommittee Minutes .pdf

Phoenix City Council 
Public Safety and Justice (PSJ) Subcommittee 
Summary Minutes 
Wednesday, February 7, 2024 
City Council Chambers 
200 W. Jefferson St. 
Phoenix, Ariz. 
Subcommittee Members Present                    Subcommittee Members Absent         
Councilwoman Ann O’Brien, Chair 
         
Councilman Kevin Robinson 
Councilman Jim Waring 
Councilwoman Guardado 
 
CALL TO ORDER 
Chairwoman O’Brien called the Public Safety and Justice (PSJ) Subcommittee to order 
at 10:01 a.m. with Councilwoman Guardado, Councilman Kevin Robinson and 
Councilman Jim Waring present.  
CALL TO THE PUBLIC 
Anne Ender expressed concern regarding Fire Department response times. 
 
MINUTES OF MEETINGS 
1. Minutes of the Public Safety and Justice Subcommittee Meeting 
Councilman Waring made a motion to approve the minutes of the Jan. 3, 2023, Public 
Safety and Justice Subcommittee meeting. Councilman Robinson seconded the motion 
which passed unanimously, 4-0. 
DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION (ITEM 2)  
 
2. Fire Staffing, Ambulance Model, and Response Time Update 
 
Chairwoman O’Brien introduced Executive Assistant Fire Chief Scott Walker and 
Assistant Fire Chief Ray Ochoa to present on this item. 
 
Assistant Chief Walker provided an update on sworn staffing, hiring goals, hiring 
strategies, and training processes. He described recruitment efforts, the impact of 
affinity groups, future improvements to the testing process, and trends in sworn staffing 
levels. 
 
Councilwoman Guardado asked about the difference between the number of applicants 
in 2015 and the number of applicants in 2023. She noted the City’s population has 
increased, so the decrease in applicants is concerning. 
Attachment A

Assistant Chief Walker stated the department is aware of this change in the number of 
applicants, and noted the pool of candidates continues to remain high. He described 
some of the steps the department is taking to improve the number of applicants.  
 
Councilwoman Guardado asked if there is anything councilmembers can assist with to 
ensure the hiring pool increases. 
 
Assistant Chief Walker stated the department is looking at all strategies, and he will 
send information to Council offices so they can assist in this process. 
 
Councilwoman Guardado asked about the hiring challenges for the Fire department. 
 
Assistant Chief Walker stated compensation has not been a hiring challenge, but the 
changing demographics of the workforce has. He stated competing with other careers 
can be difficult when work-life balance is a priority for candidates.  
 
Councilwoman Guardado thanked staff for the information. 
 
Councilman Waring expressed concern with the decrease in applicants, and 
recommended staff reach out to the Police Department and ask about their recent hiring 
efforts. 
 
Assistant Chief Walker stated staff is monitoring this situation closely and noted the 
importance of attracting quality candidates. He stated investing in the community and 
preparing people for the job through mentorship is an important strategy to attract 
quality candidates. 
 
Councilman Waring stated the downward trend in number of applicants has been 
consistent for many years was worrisome. 
 
Assistant Chief Walker provided statistics on sworn staffing levels by month throughout 
2023. 
 
Councilman Waring stated the staffing level statistics were encouraging. He asked why 
all available positions were not filled during certain months of the year. 
 
Assistant Chief Walker noted these gaps were due to attrition and the authorization to 
add new positions, as it takes time to train recruits to fill the vacant positions. 
 
Councilman Waring asked despite inevitable retirements, if the Fire Department should 
expect to be fully staffed in the near future. 
 
Assistant Chief Walker stated there is a pool of qualified applicants to be hired from, so 
positions are not vacant due to a lack of candidates. He stated any vacancies are due to 
the Fire Department adding positions.

Councilman Waring noted staff seems to be comfortable with the number of quality 
applicants. 
 
Assistant Chief Walker stated while staff wants to continue to encourage a robust pool 
of candidates, they are satisfied with the number of quality applicants received. 
 
Councilman Waring asked for data on how many applicants would be considered 
qualified candidates, how many of those candidates are eventually hired, and how many 
candidates accept a position with another city. 
 
Assistant City Manager Lori Bays stated the Fire Department’s vacancy rate is one and 
a half percent, as compared to 15 percent throughout the City. 
 
Chairwoman O’Brien asked for data regarding how many applicants tested and moved 
to the qualified candidate list. She asked about the frequency of testing. 
 
Assistant Chief Walker stated testing every six months would allow more candidates to 
apply and ensure qualified candidates are hired sooner. He provided statistics on staff 
demographics when compared to Maricopa County demographics. He discussed 
emergency response times and noted the times do not meet response time standards 
set by the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) and the Arizona Department of 
Health Services (AZDHS), but staff is working diligently to address this issue. 
 
Councilwoman Guardado expressed concern regarding the response times in District 5 
and asked how many more firefighters and fire stations would be needed to meet the 
set standards.  
 
Assistant Chief Walker stated staff would provide that information, and mentioned there 
is a 20-year forecast for response times based on future resources.  
 
Chairwoman O’Brien asked for a future agenda item regarding the forecast and long-
term staffing model. 
 
Councilman Waring expressed concern with the length of response times in District 2. 
 
Assistant Chief Walker stated the large geographic area in District 2 causes longer 
response times. He stated there are stations planned for District 2 within the future 
forecast, and leadership actively monitors data from the district to change strategy if 
needed. He stated staff must strike a balance between response times and call volume, 
and these statistics are being constantly monitored. 
 
Councilman Waring stated the quality of services includes response times, so District 2 
is receiving the poorest quality of service from the Fire Department, when compared to 
other districts.

Assistant Chief Walker stated response times are often a priority when forecasting for 
future needs of residents. He provided data on unit responses for each calendar year. 
He stated there was a 16 percent increase in transport activity levels in 2023 partially 
due to House Bill 2431. He stated the current ambulance model is unsustainable due to 
the increased demand for transports, and noted this number of transports is likely going 
to continue to increase.  
 
Chairwoman O’Brien asked for an explanation of House Bill 2431. 
 
Assistant Chief Walker explained this bill requires a higher level of scrutiny for 
emergency service providers to transport members of the public to the hospital. He 
discussed the program challenges under the current ambulance model and noted the 
current model has a high dependency on overtime. He stated the system as it exists 
today is not able to meet the growing needs in the City. 
 
Chairwoman O’Brien asked if staff planned to change the model to ensure less reliance 
on overtime. 
 
Assistant Chief Walker described the current ambulance model and stated the 
ambulance program is revenue generating. He described a new proposed ambulance 
model that would convert 10 part-time ambulance units staffed with overtime to six full-
time units to reduce reliance on overtime. 
 
Chairwoman O’Brien asked if the six part-time units left would be 12 hour shifts with 12 
part-time positions needed every day.  
 
Assistant Chief Walker stated yes, the system would still rely on those additional part-
time units. 
 
Chairwoman O’Brien asked what it would take for all part-time units to become full-time. 
 
Assistant Chief Walker stated staff would look at the funding to provide that information. 
He stated even under the new model, there would still be a need for part-time units to 
address peak hours of demand. 
 
Chairwoman O’Brien asked if the new full-time units would be assigned to specific 
stations. 
 
Assistant Chief Ochoa stated the ambulance units would be assigned based on a matrix 
of information including response times, call volume, and growth of the City. He 
mentioned units are moved around based on this information. 
 
Chairwoman O’Brien asked how often this information is assessed.

Assistant Chief Ochoa stated due to the significant changes in response times, this 
information is evaluated every six months. 
 
Chairwoman O’Brien asked if this same matrix of information would determine if part-
time and full-time units would need to be moved. 
 
Assistant Chief Ochoa stated the position of part-time and full-time units is based on the 
data staff analyzes on a regular basis. 
 
Chairwoman O’Brien asked how long this new model would take to implement. 
 
Assistant Chief Walker stated it would take approximately a year to fully implement. 
 
Councilwoman Guardado asked if new model went through the labor management 
process. 
 
Assistant Chief Walker stated this new model was not created through the Relationships 
by Objective (RBO) process, but it was created in collaboration with the United Phoenix 
Firefighters Association (UPFFA) Local 493. 
 
Councilwoman Guardado asked if this strategy was approved by the Labor 
Management Committee. 
 
Assistant Chief Walker stated yes, leadership supported this new model. 
 
Chairwoman O’Brien asked about how often part-time units are out of service due to 
absences. 
 
Assistant Chief Walker stated eight percent of part-time ambulance shifts are affected 
by absences. He stated if the units were full-time, positions would be filled through 
forced-hiring. He provided an overview of the benefits of this model change. He stated 
staff’s recommendation would be for the Public Safety and Justice Committee to 
recommend the approval of 34 new sworn full-time positions, to utilize 14 existing frozen 
sworn full-time positions, and four new non-sworn administrative full-time positions. 
 
Chairwoman O’Brien asked if this recommendation would be cost-neutral. 
 
Assistant Chief Walker stated the Fire Department has budget capacity to absorb the 
costs of these positions. 
 
Councilwoman Guardado stated support for this restructuring model and the associated 
benefits. 
 
Chairwoman O’Brien thanked staff for their data-driven approach and responsible 
solutions.

Councilman Robinson made a motion to approve the item. Councilman Waring 
seconded the motion, which passed unanimously, 4-0. 
INFORMATION AND DISCUSSION (ITEM 3)  
 
3. Domestic Violence Prevention, Family Advocacy Center and Victim Services 
Update 
 
Chairwoman O’Brien introduced Interim Human Services Director Nichole Ayoola, 
Deputy Human Services Director Kevin Mattingly, and Assistant Police Chief Ed Castro 
to present on item. 
 
Mr. Mattingly discussed the services based at the Family Advocacy Center (FAC) and 
an overview of the FAC partners. He discussed the Victim Services Division (VSD) and 
their mission, focus, goals, and victim advocacy. He shared a success story regarding a 
woman using her safety plan. He described the role of a family liaison and the grants 
that fund the FAC. He described the plans to provide technology improvements and 
new services so the FAC can loan or gift them to victims as needed. 
 
Assistant Chief DeCastro described the Police Department’s SPIDR Project and the 
renovations at the FAC and the Family Investigations Bureau.  
 
Mr. Mattingly discussed domestic violence prevention efforts from staff including events 
throughout 2023. 
 
Assistant Chief DeCastro discussed the detective workload regarding domestic violence 
calls and domestic violence prevention efforts. 
 
Mr. Mattingly discussed teen dating violence prevention and the previous efforts staff 
have made. He discussed the contract the City has through Teen Lifeline and the 
services offered, 
 
Assistant Chief DeCastro discussed School Resource Officer (SRO) education and 
collaboration. 
 
Chairwoman O’Brien thanked the Phoenix Police Foundation, the Winged Hope Center, 
and Angels on Patrol for their assistance in these efforts.  
 
INFORMATION AND DISCUSSION (ITEMS 4-5)  
 
4. Monthly Police Hiring, Recruitment, and Attrition Report 
 
Information only. No Councilmember requested additional information.

5. CAP Hiring, Recruitment and Metric Report 
 
Information only.  
 
Councilman Robinson asked how many calls have been diverted from the Police 
Department to the Community Assistance Program (CAP). 
 
Assistant Chief Ochoa stated 842 calls in 2023 were diverted to Behavioral Health 
Units.  
 
CALL TO THE PUBLIC  
None. 
 
FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS 
Chairwoman O’Brien requested an update on the 20-year forecast long term staffing 
model for the Fire Department. 
 
Councilman Waring asked for a breakdown of the reasons for calls for service and why 
some districts have twice as many calls as District 2.  
 
ADJOURNMENT 
Chairwoman O’Brien adjourned the meeting at 11:44 a.m. 
 
Respectfully submitted, 
 
Chloe Baldwin 
Management Fellow