102025IB.DOCX

Maricopa County — Formal (2026-02-25)

View PDF Item 25 Meeting page

Extracted text (via pymupdf) 24731 characters
Informal Meeting Minutes
Monday, October 20, 2025
9:30 AM
BOARD OF SUPERVISORS
Maricopa County, Arizona 
(and the Boards of Directors of the Flood Control District, 
Library District, Improvement Districts and/or Board of 
Deposit)
"The mission of Maricopa County is to 
provide regional leadership and fiscally 
responsible, necessary public services to 
its residents so they can enjoy living in 
healthy and safe communities”
Board Members
Thomas Galvin, Chairman, District 2
Kate Brophy McGee, Vice Chair, District 3
Mark Stewart, District 1
Debbie Lesko, District 4
Steve Gallardo, District 5
County Manager
Jen Pokorski
Clerk of the Board
Juanita Garza
Meeting Location
Supervisors’/ Sullivan Conference Room 
301 W Jefferson, 10th Floor
Phoenix, AZ 85003
BOARD OF SUPERVISORS
Chairman Galvin called the meeting to order and asked the Clerk to call the roll.
The Board of Supervisors of Maricopa County, Phoenix, Arizona, convened in an Informal Session at 
9:30 AM on Monday, October 20, 2025, in the Supervisors Conference Room 301 W Jefferson, 10th 
Floor Phoenix, AZ 85003, with the following members present: Thomas Galvin, Chairman, District 2;  
Kate Brophy McGee, Vice Chair, District 3;  Mark Stewart, Supervisor, District 1;  Debbie Lesko, 
Supervisor, District 4;  Steve Gallardo, Supervisor, District 5 (entered meeting late). Also present: 
Juanita Garza, Clerk; Mia Vargas, Minutes Coordinator; Jen Pokorski, County Manager; Brooke 
Worcester, Legal Counsel.
PRESENTATION AND ACTION
1.
RECOMMENDATIONS FROM THE AD HOC TASK FORCE FOR THE MARICOPA COUNTY 
ENVIRONMENTAL SERVICES DEPARTMENT ON PROCESS IMPROVEMENTS
Presentation of the final report and recommendations of Environmental Services’ Ad Hoc Task 
Force on process improvements.  The action requested is to consider the recommendations, 
accept the report, whole or in part, as submitted by the Ad Hoc Task Force, and to provide 
guidance and direction to staff.
Andy Linton, Environmental Services Director
Ox Auxier, Subcommittee Chair
Doug Kobrick, Subcommittee Chair (C-88-26-011-X-00)
Chairman Galvin introduced the item and asked the presenters to come forward.
Andy Linton, Environmental Services Director; Ox Auxier, EPS Group, Process/Permit Center, 
Subcommittee Chair; and Doug Kobrick, Hazen & Sawyer, Subcommittee Chair came forward.

Informal Meeting Minutes
Monday, October 20, 2025
Page 2 of 19
Mr. Linton gave a brief overview explaining the purpose of the presentation to the Board. He 
expressed enthusiasm in presenting recommendations from the Ad Hoc Stakeholders Task 
Force, established by the Board of Supervisors to evaluate service levels and processes within 
the Environmental Services Department, particularly the water and wastewater treatment and 
subdivision programs. Mr. Linton noted that a diverse group of stakeholders was convened to 
identify opportunities for improvement in these areas.
On the slide above, Mr. Linton noted that after a kickoff meeting on June 17, 2025, two 
Subcommittees were formed. He explained how it led to the development of 40 
recommendations that would be outlined in todays presentation.

Informal Meeting Minutes
Monday, October 20, 2025
Page 3 of 19
Mr. Linton introduced the two Subcommittee Chairs who also presented, Ox Auxier and Doug 
Kobrick. 
Mr. Auxier thanked his Subcommittee peers for their valuable contributions and recognized 
Maricopa County staff, including Andy Linton, for their support. He stated that he would present 
several recommendations for the Board of Supervisors’ approval.

Informal Meeting Minutes
Monday, October 20, 2025
Page 4 of 19
Mr. Auxier reviewed Issue 01 and the recommendations as outlined in the slide above. 
Mr. Auxier reviewed Issues 02 and 03, explaining that Issue 02 was a straightforward 
recommendation to establish a process deferring environmental infrastructure reviews within 
the City of Phoenix to the City’s health delegate, except where applicable codes require 
otherwise. On Issue 03, Mr. Auxier pointed out that during preparation for construction approval, 
there was no documentation defining the allowable design tolerances for construction.

Informal Meeting Minutes
Monday, October 20, 2025
Page 5 of 19
Supervisor Lesko asked Mr. Auxier to clarify the meaning of tolerances. Mr. Auxier explained 
that tolerances allow acceptable construction deviations, such as slight variations in sewer line 
slopes, while still ensuring proper functionality. Supervisor Lesko further clarified that different 
construction categories would have defined plus-or-minus tolerances, which Mr. Auxier 
confirmed.
Vice Chair Brophy McGee raised concerns about overlapping jurisdictions and questioned 
whether decisions should be deferred to the City of Phoenix. Mr. Auxier explained that approval 
authority for environmental infrastructure is delegated to the City of Phoenix by Maricopa 
County Environmental Services Department (MCESD) and the state, making the city the sole 
authority when projects cross jurisdictions. Mr. Linton confirmed that Phoenix holds the Arizona 
Department of Environmental Quality (ADEQ) delegations, so the County is not involved and 
routing approvals through the city will speed the process. County Manager Jen Pokorski added 
that the infrastructure is owned by the City of Phoenix.
Supervisor Lesko wanted to confirm that the delegation applied only to the City of Phoenix and 
no other jurisdictions, which Mr. Linton confirmed. She also asked what percentage of the 
property falls within Phoenix versus Maricopa County. Mr. Auxier explained that because the 
infrastructure is owned by the City of Phoenix, the city will operate and maintain it even though 
it crosses a jurisdictional boundary. Mr. Linton added that this was a unique situation involving 
a county-owned road adjacent to or passing through Phoenix, and that 100% of the review 
would be handled by Phoenix. He noted that while Phoenix would still submit to MCESD for an 
underground pipeline in a county-owned road, the recommendation is for the review authority 
to rest solely with the City of Phoenix. Ms. Pokorski noted that the property would likely be a 
narrow strip limited to the right-of-way.
Vice Chair Brophy McGee asked how the County would ensure that the City of Phoenix will 
properly review work on Maricopa County property. Mr. Linton replied that the County would 
have no jurisdiction and that it would be under the Arizona Department of Environmental Quality 
(ADEQ), which has identical engineering standards, and the same state codes apply to both 
city and County. Ms. Pokorski added that the city would still need to obtain a right-of-way permit 
from Maricopa County’s Department of Transportation to cross the county right-of-way.

Informal Meeting Minutes
Monday, October 20, 2025
Page 6 of 19
Mr. Auxier briefly reviewed the recommendations outlined in Issues 04 and 05 which included 
training, for staff to communicate with the public. The purpose and role of the Community 
Liaison to better support residents. Mr. Auxier noted plans to develop a procedure guiding staff 
on when they should initiate customer assistance.
Chairman Galvin asked how the relatively new Permit Center is performing and what feedback 
has been received. Mr. Auxier said it was a new experience for him, and Mr. Linton noted the 
system has been in place for about a year and feedback is still being collected. Discussion 
ensued on how human interaction is vital and has improved customer service by helping resolve 
issues more effectively.
Supervisor Lesko asked about the user’s perspective on the Permit Center and the need for 
human contact. Staff explained that while customers can contact County staff through the 
Permit Center, it could be improved. Mr. Linton noted that feedback shows customers want 
easier access to a real person, though some positive feedback was also received. Ms. Pokorski 
noted that the new system brings all document submissions into one place, unlike the previous 
system, and that it includes a human element, which the old system did not have.
Vice Chair Brophy McGee asked whether the Task Force conducted an unrestricted deep dive 
into the Permit Center. Staff responded that the Task Force had full access, including an 
administrator testing the process to give feedback and improvement recommendations. Vice 
Chair Brophy McGee offered suggestions for the new Community Liaison role in improving 
customer communication.
The Board and staff discussed the future of the Task Force after updates to the Permit Center, 
with Mr. Linton noting plans for annual meetings to continue to review progress.

Informal Meeting Minutes
Monday, October 20, 2025
Page 7 of 19
  
Mr. Auxier reviewed Issues 06 and 07 regarding Approval of Construction (AOP) and Approval 
of Proposed Plan (AOPP). Chairman Galvin raised concerns about utility capacity for data 
center development, asking when a Capacity Assurance letter should be required. Mr. Linton 
clarified that the Capacity Assurance letter discussed applies to wastewater treatment capacity, 
not electrical power, and would be required upfront of the approval-to-construct stage.
Mr. Auxier reviewed the recommendations for Issue 07. He highlighted the third 
recommendation, developing a procedure for drafting approval-of-construction letters that 
enables providers to operate within their existing approvals when repairs are required. 
Supervisor Stewart asked, regarding Items 6 and 7, whether the committee had identified any 
regulations, they would recommend the County raise to ADEQ or other state-level agencies to 
eliminate redundancies that may slow the process. Mr. Linton said that Doug Kobrick has a 
specific recommendation about wastewater treatment plants and will present it on an upcoming 
slide.

Informal Meeting Minutes
Monday, October 20, 2025
Page 8 of 19
Mr. Auxier reviewed Issues 08 and 09 on the slide above. He noted that Issue 09 highlights the 
need to establish an online failure notification procedure for utility owners and operators to 
report treatment process failures that temporarily affect normal operations, and to gather 
stakeholder feedback before finalizing the procedure.
~ Supervisor Gallardo entered the meeting ~
Mr. Auxier concluded by reviewing Issue 10 and the two recommendations.

Informal Meeting Minutes
Monday, October 20, 2025
Page 9 of 19
Doug Kobrick, the Subcommittee Chair, introduced himself and noted his involvement with the 
engineering standards for the next listed issues.
Mr. Kobrick reviewed Issue 01, explaining that much of the infrastructure built in the 1980s and 
1990s is aging and needs rehabilitation or replacement. He noted confusion over whether 
equipment replacements require an Approvals To Construct (ATC) and clarified that the 
recommendation would not require that process for simple rehabilitation of existing facilities. 
He emphasized that this applies only to projects that do not increase facility capacity, preserving 
the integrity of the planning process.

Informal Meeting Minutes
Monday, October 20, 2025
Page 10 of 19
Vice Chair Brophy McGee inquired about maintenance backlogs. Mr. Linton responded that 
there are no review backlogs in Environmental Services and noted that the reviews proposed 
for removal would still mostly be conducted by ADEQ, adding that the current process is 
duplicative because engineers must submit the same plans to both ADEQ and MCES.
Supervisor Lesko asked whether Maricopa County would waive its regulatory process for 
simple rehabilitation, which Mr. Kobrick confirmed. He clarified that rehabilitation means 
replacing existing equipment with similar equipment, while major process changes would 
require an ADEQ permit modification. Mr. Linton added that ADEQ retains authority over 
process changes and that Environmental Services should continue reviews for projects 
affecting the MAG 208 plan, such as new facilities or capacity expansions.
Mr. Kobrick reviewed Issue 02 concerning Engineer Bulletin 11, a 1978 document that contains 
outdated and now-prohibited treatment processes and omits many modern methods. Although 
ADEQ no longer recognizes the bulletin as regulatory, MCES has continued to use it as review 
guidance. He noted because engineering guidance and textbooks have been applied 
inconsistently, a new group will be formed to establish and standardize the guidance for future 
reviews.
Vice Chair Brophy McGee asked if ADEQ lacks a list of acceptable standards references. Mr. 
Kobrick explained that although no single list exists, ADEQ relies on regulatory programs, 
discharge standards, and aquifer protection permits. He noted it includes best available 
demonstrative control technology requirements, noting that the requirements in Bulletin 11 are 
partially obsolete and no longer enforced. Vice Chair Brophy McGee expressed the expectation 
that ADEQ would be cooperative, and Mr. Linton confirmed ADEQ’s willingness to participate 
in developing updated standards.

Informal Meeting Minutes
Monday, October 20, 2025
Page 11 of 19
Mr. Kobrick reviewed and discussed Issues 03 and 04. He explained that Issue 03 involves 
construction delays due to limited well-drilling availability, which can cause projects to miss 
deadlines and have their New Source Approvals expire before completion.
Vice Chair Brophy McGee asked whether the requirement is currently in place, noting well 
issues in her District. Mr. Linton responded that it is in place and it applies specifically to public 
water systems, meaning the requirement applies when a well is part of a public water system.

Informal Meeting Minutes
Monday, October 20, 2025
Page 12 of 19
Mr. Kobrick reviewed Issue 05 and stated that a recommendation not listed on the slide is for 
the same County reviewer to manage both the initial review and any extension requests. He 
noted that assigning new reviewers for extensions has led to added requirements not part of 
the original approval.
Chairman Galvin asked whether the automated emails from Permit Center would be sent to a 
list of applicant contacts, including multiple points of contact. Mr. Linton responded that the 
system allows multiple contacts and notifications to be sent to all listed contacts. Chairman 
Galvin also suggested following up with a phone call to ensure someone acknowledged the 
email.  
 
Mr. Kobrick reviewed Issue 06 and stated that both recommendations are currently in process 
and expected to be completed shortly.

Informal Meeting Minutes
Monday, October 20, 2025
Page 13 of 19
Mr. Kobrick reviewed Issue 07 and the final recommendation. 
Mr. Linton reviewed the Action Requested for the Board’s consideration.

Informal Meeting Minutes
Monday, October 20, 2025
Page 14 of 19
Chairman Galvin thanked staff for the presentation and recognized the committee members for 
their work, expressing appreciation on behalf of the Board of Supervisors for their service to 
Maricopa County and state agencies while balancing full-time jobs.
Vice Chair Brophy McGee made the motion to accept, the report from the Maricopa County 
Environmental Services Treatment and Subdivision Ad Hoc Stakeholder Task Force and direct 
staff to proceed with implementation of recommendations as contained in the report. The 
motion was seconded by Supervisor Mark Stewart.
Ayes: Thomas Galvin, Kate Brophy McGee, Mark Stewart, Debbie Lesko, Steve Gallardo
2.
2026 LEGISLATIVE PACKAGE
Presentation regarding the Proposed 2026 Legislative Package. At the conclusion of the 
presentation, approve Proposed 2026 Legislative Package.
Michelle Hindman, Director, Government Relations
Danny De Hoog, Senior Manager, Governmental Relations (C-20-26-005-X-00)
Chairman Galvin introduced the item, and he asked Michelle Hindman, Director, Government 
Relations and Danny De Hoog, Senior Manager, Governmental Relations, to come forward to 
present.

Informal Meeting Minutes
Monday, October 20, 2025
Page 15 of 19
Ms. Hindman and Ms. De Hoog introduced themselves. 
Ms. Hindman briefly reviewed the general timeline of Important Dates listed on the slide above. 
Vice Chair Brophy McGee, asked about the current legislative policy on strikers. Ms. Hindman 
explained they are allowed but rarely succeed if bypassing a Committee Chair. Vice Chair 
Brophy McGee noted the 7-bill deadline can be misleading and emphasized proper routing to 
Committee Chairs. Ms. Hindman added that strikers remain at risk during the session but 
cannot be offered on the floor.

Informal Meeting Minutes
Monday, October 20, 2025
Page 16 of 19
Ms. Hindman turned it over to Ms. De Hoog to talk about Air Quality. 
Ms. De Hoog noted that the first proposal was from Air Quality. She said that the Air Quality 
proposal builds on a 2017 bill and would expand current law to allow voluntary emission 
reduction credits for nonstationary sources. She explained that this change would help large 
Title V businesses that need emission offsets to relocate or start operations by allowing 
businesses to voluntarily create and sell credits to support business growth and expansion in 
the state.
Ms. Hindman discussed the Environmental Services—Cold Plunges proposal. She explained 
that cold plunge devices are becoming more common in communities, especially in wellness 
clinics. She noted that some single-use, bathtub-style units could be considered spas under 
current law and require regulation. She stated that the proposal could follow the Utah model by 
exempting certain devices from regulation while requiring safety signage.
Supervisor Lesko asked for clarification on cold plunges, and Ms. Hindman explained they are 
a trend where people submerge in cold water. Ms. Hindman noted that multi-user, inground 
cold plunges are already regulated, but the newer single-use, bathtub-style plunges are not. 
Andy Linton, Environmental Services Director, noted that current regulations would require 
costly upgrades for wellness centers, and that single-use cold plunges pose lower health risks 
than multi-user spas. Mr. Linton noted that they are considering an exemption, though 
sequential use of the same water still requires disinfection.
Vice Chair Brophy McGee asked about signage, disinfection for cold plunges and enforcement. 
Mr. Linton explained that they are proposing certain requirements in order to be exempt, such 
as signage and a disinfection system, with no enforcement unless health concerns arise.
Chairman Galvin asked whether the County should impose costly requirements on cold plunge 
spas. Mr. Linton responded that applying current rules would force many facilities to close or 
make significant, expensive upgrades.
Supervisor Stewart expressed concern that costly upgrades could hurt business owners and 
lead them to remove cold plunges. Mr. Linton responded that, based on consultations with

Informal Meeting Minutes
Monday, October 20, 2025
Page 17 of 19
national experts, there is no documented history of health issues with single-user spas or cold 
plunges. 
Supervisor Lesko expressed concerns about cold plunges due to reused water and suggested 
placing some rules. Mr. Linton noted that any rule changes would occur at the state level 
through ADEQ, and that they are awaiting guidance on those rules. Supervisor Lesko also 
suggested removing cold plunges from the proposal. County Manager, Jen Pokorski, 
recommended the Board consider two separate motions: one for the other three proposals and 
a second for the cold plunge. The Board shared their views on cold plunge use, and Ms. 
Hindman requested guidance on specific language to move forward. Chairman Galvin asked if 
their position could be modified in future meetings, and Ms. Hindman confirmed it could.
Supervisor Gallardo commented on cold plunges and asked how other counties are addressing 
the issue. He suggested it would be valuable to discuss this at the County Supervisors 
Association (CSA) to learn how other counties are handling it.
Ms. Hindman talked about the Flood Control District—Stormwater Recharge item, noting 
ongoing legislative discussions and several related bills from last year may be reintroduced. 
She requested authorization to engage with stakeholders and involve the Flood Control District, 
potentially modifying previous bills to better suit the County’s interests. Ms. Pokorski added that 
this issue could significantly impact affordable housing and that it was mentioned in the 
Chairman’s speech.
Ms. De Hoog discussed the Office of the Medical Examiner—Supervising Forensic 
Pathologists, proposel noting the current gap between receiving licensure or board certification 
and being able to supervise or conduct autopsies. She explained that a related bill previously 
advanced through the process but fell in the Senate, and they plan to reintroduce it.
Supervisor Lesko stated she supports all proposals except the Cold Plunges. She expressed 
concern that including the County’s name in the CSA meeting could imply support for cold 
plunges. She asked the Vice Chair to make a motion to exclude cold plunges so it could be 
voted on separately.

Informal Meeting Minutes
Monday, October 20, 2025
Page 18 of 19
Supervisor Lesko noted that she would like to discuss in the future setting a cap on penalty fees 
for volunteer school board members who fail to file their quarterly campaign finance reports.
Supervisor Stewart echoed Supervisor Lesko’s comments regarding campaign finance reports.
Supervisor Gallardo added that campaign finance fines increased after the legislature removed 
the cap. He stated that discussing cold plunges at CSA would not require the County to 
introduce to legislation, adding that differences between small and large counties are common 
and it is appropriate to raise issues when other counties show interest.
Supervisor Kate Brophy McGee made the motion to approve, the proposed 2026 Legislative 
Package for Air Quality, Flood Control District and Office of the Medical Examiner. The motion 
was seconded by Supervisor Debbie Lesko
Ayes: Thomas Galvin, Kate Brophy McGee, Mark Stewart, Debbie Lesko, Steve Gallardo
~ The following second motion was made ~
Supervisor Kate Brophy McGee made the motion to approve, the Environmental Services 2026 
Legislative Package as presented. The motion was seconded by Supervisor Mark Stewart.
Ayes: Thomas Galvin, Kate Brophy McGee, Mark Stewart, Steve Gallardo
Nay: Debbie Lesko
Each Supervisor explained their vote.
Supervisor Lesko emphasized that the reuse of water is not healthy and should be regulated 
under health standards and stated that Maricopa County should not be promoting or advancing 
the cold plunge issue. Supervisor Lesko said for these reasons she voted no. 
Supervisor Stewart expressed appreciation for Supervisor Lesko’s approach and thanked Mr. 
Linton for researching potential health issues related to cold plunges. He stated his support for 
the proposal, noting it would help businesses while requiring signage to inform the public about 
reused water.
Supervisor Gallardo expressed support for the issue and thanked Supervisor Lesko for raising 
public health concerns. He noted that while he is not very familiar with cold plunge facilities, he 
would like to monitor any potential public health issues in the future.
Vice Chair Brophy McGee expressed support for the issue but suggested examining how other 
counties handle cold plunges. She noted that other environments practice submersion and 
recommended exploring language to inform the public to engage with caution.
Chairman Galvin thanked Supervisor Lesko for her comments, explained his support, and 
commented on the use of reused water. He spoke about the County’s enforcement regarding 
underground bathtubs and the outcomes of legislation related to cold plunges.
Chairman Galvin thanked Ms. Hindman and Ms. De Hoog for their presentation. 
3.
EXECUTIVE SESSION
Vote to convene in Executive Session to consider the items on the Executive Agenda dated 
Monday, October 20, 2025, for Board of Supervisors and relevant Special Districts pursuant to 
the statutory authority listed for each item.

Informal Meeting Minutes
Monday, October 20, 2025
Page 19 of 19
Motion to approve by Supervisor Kate Brophy McGee, seconded by Supervisor Mark Stewart
Ayes: Thomas Galvin, Kate Brophy McGee, Mark Stewart, Debbie Lesko, Steve Gallardo
MEETING ADJOURNED
After discussion of the items listed on the Executive Session agenda and there being no further business to 
come before the Board, the meeting was adjourned. 
_______________________________
Thomas Galvin, Chairman of the Board
ATTEST:
___________________________
Juanita Garza, Clerk of the Board